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JOSEPH M. - INTERVIEW #3
HOW TO ENAGE: WATCH by clicking the video up top, LISTEN by clicking the audio link below, or READ the interview by clicking here.
THE BREAKDOWN
1:11 - Joseph is a brilliant performer.
5:00 - He does not want to tell you what to think.
10:00 - Who is Homer? Who is Joseph? Working at the curtain of history.
12:30 - The process and intimacy of it all.
18:30 - I hate the man who says one thing but thinks another in his heart.
23:00 - How it started. Always The Theatre!
29:00 - Building trust with your audience.
39:00 - Do not take your creative spirit for granted.
45:00 - Nobody likes asking people for money.
47:50 - All he cares about.
50:00 - Survival? The answer is community. Probably.
DEBRIEF
I met Joseph a couple of years ago while attending a solo performance that he was putting on in his basement apartment in Queens. In my case, we were an audience of two (most of the time it was for three people but that night there was one no-show). So we were two strangers sitting in another stranger’s home, no idea what to expect, no idea why I was even there. At that moment in time I had decided I would go back to live performance so I wanted to open myself up to all the theatre things. It was also pay what you can, which I am rarely opposed to.
Most importantly, I didn’t get murdered, which was excellent. But secondly, the show was wonderful. He performed the entirety of Book 1 of The Odyssey (in ancient Greek) two feet from our faces in a small sparsely lit room (his living room) that he had decked out beyond my comprehension. The production was impressive, yes (David Greenspan vibes), but more so than that, it was truly inspiring. Not simply because of what he was able to accomplish as a performer, but because of the uniqueness of the container in which we three existed for a couple of hours.
Netflix is fine, it will do a lot of the time. But this, this was something else entirely that was going on in a living room - a different kind of content consumption. The cost wasn’t prohibitive (which it certainly could have been) and the black box theatrical experience was unlike anything I had ever seen. It was like, Oh, we can do this?! This is possible?! Hm, there are so many ways to exist together.
As we left the basement he kindly asked us who we were and I very hesitantly said that I was a performer too (feeling like an absolute fraud) and he was like, “Let me know when I can come see you.” Obviously I assumed that was a polite lie, but because I am a shameless emailer I reached out to him before my first short solo show to extend an invitation, and much to my surprise he came. We exchanged some polite “Thank you for coming” style words that night, and since then I have seen a few more of his performances, in varying containers, with varying degrees of audience capacity - but it is not until now that we have ever had a real conversation.
The truth is, when I first came up with the idea for this “newsletter”-interview-experiment-thing, he was the first person I knew I wanted to talk to. After one of his recent shows (where he performed Book 4 presented by Theaterlab) - for a full audience, outside of his home - I walked up to him and was like, “Hi!” And he was like, “Hi!” And I said, “I need to ask you something.” And he said, “Ok.” and I said, “Can I interview you, I’m doing a thing.” And then he said, “Sure, I’d love to do a thing.” And then I went home and was like, well I guess I have to do this thing now that I just told this guy that I barely knew that I was going to interview him. So that’s how this all started.
We touch on a lot of things in our conversation but I want to point to the obnoxious notion of “following one's authentic path” that we get to towards the end of our chat. Yes, gross, but also, yes, human, and yes, remarkably difficult if not impossible for most people on this earth (for a variety of reasons) - it is a privilege. Whether you call yourself an artist, or whether you believe yourself to be a creative person, or whether your entire identity is somehow built in opposition to either of those things - there is most likely something that lights you up. Something that when you do it, when you engage it, when you are with it, you are truly yourself and it no longer feels (entirely) like a grueling slog to be alive. Let’s call this experience being in touch with your creative spirit. And if those words make you sick then call it being in touch with YOUR SHIT - like that’s your shit, but not in a poop way, in a dope way (unless you love poop, in which case - do you).
We unfortunately have no answers when it comes to how to survive in a material way as an artist, how to professionalize as an artist and not want to jump off a bridge, or how to age gracefully as an artist (who is still trying to figure out how to survive). BUT, I do think that where we do get to is the value of having (and holding on to) one’s creative spark/spirit/shit - the thing that lights you the fuck up. Because without it (while we may have more money) we’d be completely lost on this dark and uncertain path. I mean obviously WE NEED MONEY (like so badly), but without the flicker it’s just a void, so it’s best to protect it in whatever way you can.
Anyways, I’m just grateful that I met Joseph and I want to thank him for seeing my spark and for putting his out into the world because it has meant a great deal to me.
Catch Joseph where you can and give him your money. He will inspire you.
LIST OF THINGS (Florida Edition)
I flew to Boca Raton Florida (where humanity’s creative spirit goes to “retire”) the morning after the election. There are many things that I could write about that experience here but I don’t want to, maybe another time, maybe not.
My favorite things about Florida are the animals and the colors - so I’m going to leave you with that.
TO CONCLUDE
On the plane back to New York I had a thought. Planes are very excellent places to have thoughts (and to cry), especially planes that go from Fort Lauderdale to JFK because you really get to experience an aggressively human slice of life. The thought I had was this - what if it isn’t that human beings are inherently good or bad? What if we are inherently both and it all kinda comes down to example and permission. What is the example that is set for us and what kind of permission have we been given. This thought train could go in many directions, but I was struck by how freeing it must be to have the permission to be “bad”. To have the permission to lean into your (violent scapegoating) shadow in an absolutely unconscious way, and really dance with the parts of you that you’ve been told to keep hidden your whole life.
There is a real ecstasy to indulging in your own darkness. There is a true kind of freedom to giving up on the light, on your light (especially if you’ve never been given permission to fuck with it or don’t even know that it exists). It’s not going to fulfill you, and it will rot you from the inside out, but giving up on your light (ie. snuffing the spark, clamping down on compassion, projecting your internal shame out onto the world through a desire to own and control) is the fastest way to wealth and dominance in this world, and so long as those are the key values/examples that (truthfully) define contemporary empires/power, it will always be tempting (easier) to let yourself be swayed by the dark side.
As the distractions (aka. fake light/Netflix) fail to adequately numb and the social benefits of being “good” (maintaining a particular status quo) no longer seem to deliver, the most human move is to (unconsciously) shift to the opposing gear. Since, as we all know, darkness wins precisely because we refuse to acknowledge that it has always been there (likely gaining steam hand in hand with the thing that claims to be THE LIGHT).
For those of us who want things to be different, we might want to start by recognizing the hard (and complex) truths of who we are (individually & collectively), so that we don’t continue to be so blown away by our foundational and illogical human programming. To see real change we likely have to adjust the permissions and set new examples. And also, you know, build sustainable community and so on. FUN! :)
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